Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/pc/text/spacedig/v08/v8_353.txt

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Date: Wed, 7 Sep 88 19:06:39 PDT
From: Ted Anderson <[e-mail]>
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Subject: SPACE Digest V8 #353

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 8 : Issue 353

Today's Topics:
        NASA radio programs for September (Forwarded)
           Re: Initials for the Uninitiated
        Re: Automated vs. personned spacecraft
              new list (aviation-theory)
               Re: Where's Dani
                Re: plutonium
                   Re: Seti
                 NASA Select
             New mailing list: space-tech
            Re: 95% vs. 99.9% reliability
               Re:  Solar Sails
           The sun as a trashcan (was : Plutonium)
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 88 02:00:40 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Peter E. Yee)
Subject: NASA radio programs for September (Forwarded)

FROM:  Debbie Rivera

The September radio programs, the "Space Story & Frontiers" will
be aired on NASA Select, Mon. Aug. 29th from 1-1:30 p.m.
Eastern.  This month's shows feature:

Analyzing the Greenhouse Effect
Ichitiaque Rasool, Hdqts.

The Biosphere II Project
Carl Hodges, Univ. of Arizona

The NASA Arctic Boundary Layer Experiment
Robert Harris, LaRC

STS-26 The Space Shuttle Returns
Astronauts Rick Hauck and Mike Lounge

------------------------------

Date: 25 Aug 88 17:17:46 GMT
From: attcan!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: Initials for the Uninitiated

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Amos Shapir) writes:
>Would it  be too  much to  ask of posters  in this  group not  to assume
>everybody understands the  initials they use? ...
>... all I ask is that future posters use
>the  full  text of  the  initials,  at least  the  first  time they  are
>mentioned.

The first time I mentioned those various sets of initials was (for most
of them, anyway) several years ago, at which time I did supply the full
expansion. :-)

I try to include the expansions occasionally.  But I'm afraid that if
you want to read the AW&ST summaries, you're going to have to get used to
it.  The things are rather a chore to type up; using a terse, telegraphic
style with relatively-infrequent longer explanations shortens the task
noticeably.  Given that this is an unpaid volunteer effort, the style
is not going to change.
--
Intel CPUs are not defective,  |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
they just act that way.        | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 88 03:37:54 GMT
From: tektronix!reed![e-mail]  (P Douglas Reeder)
Subject: Re: Automated vs. personned spacecraft

Another work of fiction on the subject is the short story "Becalmed in Hell"
by Larry Niven, my favorite author.
     There is a short story followup to "The Ship Who Sang" in Anne
McCaffrey's collection "Get Off The Unicorn".  McCaffrey is my other favorite
author.


--
Doug Reeder                           USENET: ...!tektronix!reed!douglas
10 Cyclopedia Square             from BITNET: [e-mail]
Terminus City                     from  ARPA: tektronix!reed!douglas@berkley
Terminus,The Foundation               Box 502 Reed College,Portland,OR 97202

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 26 Aug 88 08:37:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ted Anderson <[e-mail]>
X-Andrew-Message-Size: 2279+0
Subject: new list (aviation-theory)
Cc: [e-mail]

New Special Interest Group


Aviation-Theory
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Originated from the AVIATION list, a new list has been created a short time
ago. The new list, called AVIATION-THEORY, is meant to be for scientific
discussions on Aeronautical and Space Technology Engineering topics.

Space Technology and Aeronautical Engineering have always been closely
related. I would like to point out that the new list is, despite the name
AVIATION-THEORY, is meant for both aeronautical and space technology
engineering topics, so that is AEROSPACE ENGINEERING.

Apart from discussions between subscribers also calls for papers,
announcements for seminars, etc. can be sent to the list, because it should
become a real scientific list, similar to the AI-list, the Connectionists
list etc.

Topics open for discussion are:

Calls for papers         Aerodynamics            Aircraft Structures
Anouncements seminars    Flight Mechanics        Aircraft Materials
Books to be published    Stability and Control   Thermal Control
Re-entry aerodynamics    Propulsion              and others.

At the moment we are looking for someone to start a USENET bulletin board
for this new list. But, because we have not found someone to guide the
USENET side, all messages coming from USENET should be sent to the special
adress mentioned below.

People who want to subscribe the new list, can send a message to Chris
Maeda (address below).

For any questions, remarks, etc. please mail me.

Rob A. Vingerhoeds

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Moderator: Rob A. Vingerhoeds,
           Ghent State University, Automatic Control Laboratory
           [e-mail]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
To be added to/deleted from/corrections made to list, send message to:

           [e-mail]
           Chris Maeda, MIT

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All messages should be sent to:

           [e-mail]    (from BITNET / INTERNET)
           [e-mail] (from USENET)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 88 17:10:55 GMT
From: fluke!ssc-vax![e-mail]  (Dani Eder)
Subject: Re: Where's Dani

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roger Arnold @prodigal) writes:
> the hoi polloi, and, BTW, announce which camp YOU're in).  Looked
> kind of like a giant Apollo capsule.  Where's Dani?
>
> - Roger Arnold                ..ucsd!telesoft!roger

I finally got a net connection back.  The Space Station program at Boeing outgrew the building I was in.  We now occupy a brand {_new building called the
"Trade Zone Center", which we call the Twilight Zone for numerous reasons.
(when I say "we" I refer to the group I work in, the Program is now spread
over three locations in the Marshall Space Flight Center area.)

I'll be at the Worldcon in New Orleans over Labor Day weekend.  I look
forward to seeing some of you sci.space folks there.

D.
--
Dani Eder / Boeing / Space Station Program / uw-beaver!ssc-vax!eder
[phone](w) [phone](h) 1075 Dockside Drive #905 Huntsville,
AL 35824  34 40 N latitude 86 40 W longitude +100m altitude, Earth

------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 88 15:36:29 GMT
From: iscuva![e-mail]  (Jim Kendall)
Subject: Re: plutonium

In article <880825130944.0000072C.ABAY.AA@Virginia> [e-mail] (=3545***) writes:
>Someone wrote in suggesting that we dump plutonium into the sun and kill
>two birds with one stone:[]

>I see two problems:

I'll add a third; the likelyhood of a mishap during launch.

Imagine a rocket full of Pt exploding over Florida............

Cheers!

--
Jim Kendall                 Send all prank mail        My boss is in full
[e-mail]        to: /dev/null              agreement with all
uunet!iscuva!jimk                                      of my opinions....

------------------------------

Date: 25 Aug 88 11:09:52 GMT
From: mcvax!ukc!reading!cf-cm!cybaswan![e-mail]  (Steve Hosgood)
Subject: Re: Seti

I've been reading the discussions about SETI, the silence we seem to be
receiving, etc. It seems, however, that we're up against some pretty stiff
problems dealing with ETs, partly technological and partly due to the fact
that we may not be able to comprehend an ET's message if we *did* receive
such a thing.

Wouldn't it be sensible to spend some effort looking nearer to home? The seas
contain several species of (presumed) intelligent life, yet I don't know of
any sucess at communicating with them short of training dolphins to poke
messages into computers on giant keyboards! This can hardly be regarded as
communicating with the creatures can it?

I would suggest that we have little chance at dealing with ETs until we can
talk to the other intelligent life on *this* planet. Comments, anyone?

------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 88 19:51:54 GMT
From: att!mtuxo!mtgzy![e-mail]  (r.l.fletcher)
Subject: NASA Select

I have seen repeated references to NASA Select, can someone
please explain what it is and how do I get it?

                    Thanks,
                    Ron Fletcher
                    AT&T Bell Laboratories
                    Middletown NJ

------------------------------

Date: 27 Aug 88 03:51:02 GMT
From: DAISY.LEARNING.CS.CMU.EDU![e-mail]  (Marc Ringuette)
Subject: New mailing list: space-tech

=============

"Space-tech" will be a small technical mailing list.  We will discuss new
concepts for space development.  We are interested in taking ambitious new
ideas, bouncing them around the net, and working out the details.

Topics will include solar sails, orbiting tethers, lunar manufacturing,
robotics, and anything that would benefit from some technical brainstorming.
We won't shy away from ideas that seem too difficult to implement right
now, as long as we can have a basis for working out whether or not they
can really work.  We will not discuss politics at all.

We welcome everyone to the group, with one provision: you should be
willing to sit down with a paper and pencil and try to work out some
details.  We don't mean to discourage asking questions, but this isn't
intended as a "chat off the top of your head" list.

We will also provide a digested list for those who prefer less mail
volume and a more organized discussion.

To join the list, send your name and net address to:

     [e-mail]

We'd also appreciate hearing about your background and interests.
Please specify whether you want the normal list or the digested list.

=================

The organizers:

Marc Ringuette ([e-mail])
   I am a CS PhD student at Carnegie-Mellon in Pittsburgh.  I am currently
   participating in the CMU Mars Rover project, doing software for a walking
   rover prototype.  My interests include AI, robotics, amateur physics,
   orbiting tethers, and small business applications of research.

Steve Abrams ([e-mail])
   I am a Physics PhD student at the University of Texas at Austin.  I am
   currently a member of the National Executive Board of the Students for
   the Exploration and Devlopment of Space (SEDS).  My interests include
   solar sails, electro-dynamic tethers for power generation, space
   education, mission design, and gravitational radiation observatories.


=================
--
Marc Ringuette
CMU Computer Science

------------------------------

Date: 26 Aug 88 18:07:43 GMT
From: att!alberta!mnetor!utzoo![e-mail]  (Henry Spencer)
Subject: Re: 95% vs. 99.9% reliability

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Eugene Miya) writes:
>Yaw vol, mein herr, vhere do you vant us to line up?  Das thou plan to
>pull the trigger, thein self?

Line up in vront of der nozzle of der next SRB tezt.  I schall push der
button myzelf iff nezezzary.  If du canst not liff honorably, putting der
interests ovf your profession and your country -- not to mention a zertain
zeven aztronauts -- ahead of zose of your company und your career, at leazt
you can die honorably vhen your venality und cowvardice cauze disaster!

>No one has brought up loss of a second craft if the first problem had not
>be isolated...

If one evaluates the loss of another orbiter as absolutely unacceptable,
then one must ground the entire fleet permanently.

>... Also what ever happened to making making space safe
>for every one [i.e., eventually doing away with astronaut requirements]
>which everyone was interested for such a time?

I'd be willing to settle for making space only mildly dangerous for everyone.
You don't need to meet astronaut requirements to be able to look at the risk
and say "yes, this is worth taking".

>Oh!  Am I on the wrong side of the Pacific?

Well, the way the US space program is going lately, it's starting to look
like all of us in North America are on the wrong side of some ocean or other...
--
Intel CPUs are not defective,  |     Henry Spencer at U of Toronto Zoology
they just act that way.        | uunet!attcan!utzoo!henry [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 27 Aug 88 08:55:14 GMT
From: tektronix!reed![e-mail]  (P Douglas Reeder)
Subject: Re:  Solar Sails

One way to consider the redshift problem is to perform the following
thought experiment:
    Stand in front of a mirror.  Move the mirror forward and back.
The image of you (the photons bouncing off your surface) appears twice
as far away as mirror.  When you move the mirror away at velocity v,
your image move away at an apparant velocity of 2v, at slow velocities.
Now move the mirror away at a relativistic speed (I TOLD you it was a
thought expertiment!)  Your image move away from you at a higher
relativistic speed.  Since it it moving at relativists speed, it appears
redshifted.  Replace yourself with the sun and the mirror with a solar
sail.

--
Doug Reeder                           USENET: ...!tektronix!reed!douglas
10 Cyclopedia Square             from BITNET: [e-mail]
Terminus City                     from  ARPA: tektronix!reed!douglas@berkley
Terminus,The Foundation               Box 502 Reed College,Portland,OR 97202

------------------------------

Date: 27 Aug 88 14:04:33 GMT
From: mcvax!unido!tub!tmpmbx!netmbx![e-mail]  (Thomas Cervera)
Subject: The sun as a trashcan (was : Plutonium)

This is a reply to a posting someone left here some hours before (lost
the origional message, sorry)

He said, he heard from one of his friends (dunno exactly), that it would
be better to dump all the dangerous Plutonium into the sun to 'catch two
birds with only one stone'. On one hand, his friend said, you would get
rid of all the Pt on Earth in a clean way, on the other hand, you could
send out some signs of live (Pt isn't normal in the Sun's spectrum, I guess)
because of emissions caused by ionisized Pt.

He replied, that it wouldn't be possible to leave terrestial orbit (if I
understood right), because spacecrafts would be too slow to do the job,
and all the Pt wouldn't be enough to send recognizable signals.

In my eyes the idea to dump Plutonium into the sun could become reality.
If we can send spacecrafts to the inner planets of our solar system,
I think, it must be possible to let something like that crash into the
sun, or not ?
But if it's possible, why don't we send all our dangerous (radioactive)
garbage to the sun ? Here in Germany, they don't know where to go with
it.
At this time, U.S.A. and USSR destroy their expensive short range missles
'cause they are (thankgod !) no longer needed to respond the 'threat from
the other side'.
Why don't they modify them to be able to leave the earth's gravity
field ? The payload could be Pt or other dangerous stuff ...

Sending recognizable signals to other civilizations with those few tons
of Plutonium we have on Earth isn't possible, I think.
You won't find enough Pt in the whole solar system. And if you would dump so
much of this stuff into the sun that there would be a possible success,
this should affect the Sun's physics in a negative way, I guess.

--

alderaan
OP RKOpdp (RSTS/E)
FB Mathematik/Informatik
RKO Berlin

Dieffenbachstrasze 60-61
1000 Berlin 61

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V8 #353
*******************